Interview with Robert Shaw, Director, Writer, and Co-Animator of Stop Motion Short Film "The Machine"

Parables and allegories, amidst every other kind of story that can be told, have a unique and extraordinarily powerful quality that is all their own: They allow us – the audience – to learn lessons about and to see ourselves, others, and the world in which we live through a completely different lens – that of narrative. The best allegories and parables, in fact, have the unique ability to simultaneously act as conduits for important lessons and to also exist as literal stories, which gives them the unique ability to challenge beliefs and ideas held by the audience in a way that only art can do. Some of the most cherished stories ever composed, illustrated, and put on film are parables and allegories, and what makes them so exceptional are how powerful the lessons are that they teach.

The Machine meets The Farmer in The Machine. Photo courtesy of Robert Shaw.

Robert Shaw, in his haunting and beautiful stop motion short film The Machine – which he wrote, directed, and co-animated – is this kind – the best kind – of allegory. It manages to be the best of both worlds: To, on one level, subsist as an extraordinarily engaging and poignant film, and to also subtly convey an underlying theme and lesson.

“The story for The Machine remained unchanged from beginning to end,” Shaw tells Stop Motion Geek. “My politics, like most people are complicated and don’t fit neatly in any one philosophy, but under it all I felt (and still feel) that money is the most evil force in the world. The Machine was written as an allegory about free-market capitalism, but the symbolism is very simple. That is so it’s not a story that applies only to the problems in the United States. It applies to every place I’ve ever been to.”

The idea that The Machine’s is an allegory is brilliantly conveyed in the film: The entire story take place inside of a 20th Century nickelodeon, which adds another layer of subtle observation that all of the characters and the setting in which they live are powered by and all work within a larger, bigger “machine.”

The opening scene of The Machine. Source: Vimeo.

The film begins with a hand reaching out and inserting a coin in the nickelodeon, which initiates both the story playing out within the “machine” and a clock – perhaps symbolic of the doomsday clock – that constantly counts down to twelve until the very last scene of the film.

Inside of the nickelodeon, the character of “The Machine” is made by “The Man,” and then proceeds to tromp across a kingdom and, from there, starts to wreak havoc.

The Farmer from The Machine. Photo courtesy of Robert Shaw.

In support of the narrative, every single one of the puppets featured in the film are hand-crafted marvels, exquisitely constructed and engineered. The scenery and animation also have this quality, and yet every visual element manages to retain a “hand-crafted” feel while still managing to subsist within the mechanized aesthetic of the film, which is, in and of itself, an incredible feat.

"The Machine" from The Machine. Photo courtesy of Robert Shaw.

I recently had a chance to interview Shaw about his work on The Machine. In our interview, Shaw had a chance to discuss his inspirations – from his animation influences to Michelangelo’s “David” – as well as his creative process. Furthermore, he tells us his advice to creatives aspiring to become a part of the animation industry. Shaw also gives us a deep-dive into what his schedule and role as a animation director at Portland-based animation studio Bent Image Labs looks like – a glorious overdose in an element of the animation industry that is, quite often, secret from the general public. You can read our interview below in full.

A.H.: Can you tell us a little about where the idea for The Machine came from, what it meant to you, and what roles you performed on it across the entirety of the production?

Robert Shaw: I traveled to Europe for the first time in 2003. I visited several cities in a few different countries. I first started thinking about The Machine after seeing the statue of David in Florence Italy. I think that’s where the idea for the design of the character came from, as well as the beginnings of the story. A few months later I visited Prague and an ornate theatrical style started taking shape in the film idea.

"The Farmer" concept sketch. Photo courtesy of Robert Shaw.

I have always loved animation from places like Czech Republic, Poland and Russia so that eastern block style can't help but find its way into my animation. The concept for The Machine came out of traveling through Europe, but also through the films that I love. The idea rattled around in my brain for a long time before I actually made it so it’s hard to pinpoint exactly where it came from.

A.H.: From first conception to final product, what was the evolution for idea of The Machine from a story standpoint? What choices did you make along the way that shaped the final film, transforming it from the film you originally envisioned into the finished film?

RS: The story for The Machine remained unchanged from beginning to end. My politics, like most people are complicated and don’t fit neatly in any one philosophy, but under it all I felt (and still feel) that money is the most evil force in the world. The Machine was written as an allegory about free-market capitalism, but the symbolism is very simple. That is so it’s not a story that applies only to the problems in the United States. It applies to every place I’ve ever been to.

"The Machine" concept sketch. Photo courtesy of Robert Shaw.

I initially imagined a stop motion puppet as The Machine, with paper cut outs for everything else. The Farmer, King, etc., were going to be cut up illustrations, almost like Victorian paper dolls. I think because I started the film and did an animatic in 2003, but then didn’t pick it up and animate until 2007, I was no longer into the original designs so I tried something different.

I fell in love with Paper craft at some point during the down time of the film, so I made 3D paper puppets for the characters. Paper-craft puppets worked with the nickelodeon theater idea and made it more interesting for me to animate.

A.H.: I’m quite impressed by the sound design of The Machine, which is one element that is so key to making animated film work yet it so often gets overlooked. Can you tell us a little bit about your collaboration with Brian Kinkley, Sirrobrob, and Andrea Schuch on the sound design of the film? Also, from your work on all of your projects, what have been the greatest lessons you’ve learned about sound design and how it contributes to the final film?

RS: I could not agree more. Sound is incredibly important. Film is the combination of visuals and sound and if you have sound in your work, you should treat it with the same importance as your image. In fact, it’s a tool, like dialogue, and editing, to help control your film and present ideas.

"Little Skeleton" puppet. Photo courtesy of Robert Shaw.

The sound started with Andrea, an Austrian fabricator that worked on a show with me in Germany back when I first got the idea. Her accent and her voice were perfect. She sounds gentle but straight forward which gives the narration a haunting feel. She also has a strong accent which helped throw off the scent of this being an American film. I wanted it to feel more universal so her accent was perfect.

Brian Kinkley is an animation peer who also does a little sound design here and there. He and I have very similar aesthetics and he has a better ear than I do. I did a rough sound design, because I need that to judge the pacing and emotion of a film before I handed it off to Brian. At the time I felt like it was 90% finished and so it was almost unnecessary to have him work on it. This was the biggest lesson on the film, and one I learn again and again as a director. The lesson is; get people who are better than yourself to do specific things on your work. Brian really brought it all together and gave it a sense of texture that was not there in my rough. On my newest film, Brian and I worked together again and I have actually added someone to do the mastering so that it will sound that much better.

Sirrobrob is just me. I feel tacky writing my name multiple times on the credits so it’s my music pen name.

A.H.: Looking back on The Machine now, eight years later, what is your perspective on it? Do you have any takeaways - lessons you wished you had known, things you wish you had done differently, etc.?

RS: I think its a pretty good marker in time, so I would not actually want to go back and change anything. The message still rings true for me. I guess my regret is that I didn’t put a little more comedy into it. I don’t think it needed to be funny, but when I have watched it in theaters, it comes off so serious and I didn’t intend it to be devoid of humor. The message would be more effective is there had bit a tiny bit of lightness along the way.

"The Farmer" template. Photo courtesy of Robert Shaw.

A.H.: For nearly two decades you’ve sustained a professional career in the stop motion industry. Do you have any advice on how to sustain a career in animation? How have you constructed your life in a way so that you can find the emotional and intellectual energy to continue to pursue your creative passions full-time?

RS: My advise to everyone who wants to work in stop motion is practice and work. Whatever you want to do, whether its animate, fabricate or whatever, start doing it all the time. Make stuff. Animate stuff. Be critical of your work and keep trying to get better.

At the same time, go get a job in animation. Be a PA or an intern and work your heart out. If the studio has testing stages, stay after hours and animated. Stop motion is a small industry and the people you work with today are going to be the same people that tell you about jobs in 20 years so it’s important to get into that community as soon as you can.

Also, be cool to everyone. People who are interns today are going to be directors and executive producers in the future. If you treat someone like crap today, they will remember.

"The Man" template. Photo courtesy of Robert Shaw.

As for the second question about finding your energy, I always have a personal project. I do commercial work, but always have my own work happening after hours. This is the only way I have found to maintain any balance. As a professional, I am constantly asked to solve creative problems and I am asked to defend my creative decisions. Without my personal work I would lose the ability to stand behind my decisions. By going to my basement and animating stuff there, I recharge the creative battery that I need for the commercial work.

A.H.: This is a weirder and broader question, but I’m curious to know the answer: Across your career in the stop motion industry, you’ve directed dozens of stop motion short films, television specials, music videos, and commercials. How do you and your colleagues go about scheduling one of these projects - specifically according to output of animation per animator during the production process? What might the schedule look like for a project such as the Dairy Farmers of Canada commercial you directed, and how do you, as a director, make sure that you’re on schedule and on budget throughout the production process?

RS: That is a tricky one. For one, I don’t do any of it alone. There is always a producer working with me and we run numbers off of each other to make sure we are being realistic. We also consult the other artists on the project. So I go to animators, show them the boards, and ask if the schedule sounds crazy of doable. If they feel it’s crazy then we try to see if adding more animators will solve it.

The Machine meets The Man in The Machine. Source: Vimeo.

The job is broken down into the frames for every shot which the producer is tracking daily. This way if we start falling behind, we know quickly enough to react.

The animation I directed for Dairy Farmers of Canada is a good example for a commercial stop motion project. We start with about 2 weeks of character designs and storyboards. Then we edit the storyboards into a “boardomatic” to figure out the timing. At the same time as the boardomatic, we use the character designs to start building sets and puppets. A team of stop motion and felt artists works together for several weeks to create all of the sets and puppets. Everything was made of felt, down to the lightbulbs. Once the characters and sets are ready, we bring them on stage and a crew lights them and starts building camera moves. I think we completed the animation in around 4 weeks with 2-3 animators. I tried to keep things as practical (in camera) as possible so the compositing was minimal. Finally we do a color correction pass where we tweak the color of each shot a little to make them flow from scene to scene.

The Machine meets The King in The Machine. Source: Vimeo.

My normal day is taking notes we get from the client and working with the different departments (art department, animators, stage, and compositing) to figure out the best ways to address them. When the animators are working I set up framing and staging for the next shot. Then I check the shots as they finish and direct them on the action for the next shot. Honestly, depending on what part of the process we are in, my schedule can look completely different from day to day. As director, its my job to wrangle all of the parts and pieces and make them all agree with each other.

I don't know if I've answered your question here but there’s also this behind the scenes for the spot that might be helpful.

A.H.: Besides Bent Image Lab, the stop motion studios Laika and House Special also call Portland, Oregon their home. From your point of view, what does the stop motion landscape look like in Portland and what is your personal view on working and living there? What makes Portland a desirable place for stop motion studios and talent to flock to?

RS: Portland’s animation community really owes its formation to Will Vinton Studios. In the eighties, they were doing a lot of Claymation and their work was well known. I grew up on the California raisins. Like a lot of people, I first moved out here to work at Will Vinton but then fell in love with Portland and felt like I wanted to stay here. It has been challenging at times to find work here but the animation community in Portland is very tight and supportive. If you can make it work, it’s totally worth it.

The Machine converses with the Earth. Source: Vimeo.

A.H.: Do you have anything you’re working on right now that you can tell our readers about?
RS: I am 99.9999% finished my latest film and hope to start screening at festivals soon. It’s taken ten years to complete, mostly because it had to be done on my own time and I’ve done other projects along the way. I’ve already started my next film which I’ve promised myself will be done in a year. We will see if I keep that promise.

The clock in The Machine as it strikes twelve. Source: Vimeo.

You can learn more about Robert Shaw and you can watch more of his work by visiting his Vimeo and website, as well as Bent Image Lab’s Vimeo and website.

You can watch The Machine by going here.

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