Interview with Edwina Liard, Producer of Oscar® Nominated Stop Motion Short Film, "Negative Space"

Negative Space title card sequence. Source: Vimeo.

For Edwina Liard, producer of the Oscar®-nominated stop motion short film Negative Space, a career in the film industry was by no means a childhood dream. In fact, as she tells Stop Motion Geek, the first kindling of her desire to explore the industry came about well after graduation from business school. “It came about as I was studying cultural management, after graduating from a business school in France,” says Liard. “A friend of mine was an intern in a production company and told me how diverse and interesting it was, and I thought ‘ok, let’s try that!’ That’s how I got caught!”

Soon after this revelation, Liard began to dedicate herself to becoming involved in the filmmaking industry, at first starting to work as a production assistant in France for two years, before then working for two more years in Spain at a medium length film festival. After her work in Spain, Liard returned to France in November of 2011, at which point her now-business-partner, Nidia Santiago, asked Liard to join her production company Ikki Films, which she had founded in June of that year. Liard accepted, thus marking her embarkment upon what has become quite a prolific career at Ikki Films, at which Liard and Santiago have partnered with a diverse talent pool of directors from all over the world – places such as France, Russia, Colombia, Mexico, and Germany – to produce many award-winning films. “I never looked back,” Liard remarks.

Packing sequence from Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

“Since I was a child I was always more into books than screens,” Liard continues, musing, “but books have always created images in my mind, I think that’s why it felt so natural to work in an industry helping people’s stories become images. And I particularly love animation because I love being taken in a new visual world where everything is created from scratch, it amazes me.”

Negative Space, one of Ikki Film’s most recent projects, is a beautiful and heart-wrenching short film that, through the recurring motif of packing a suitcase, explores the relationship between a boy named Sam and father through the eyes of Sam across his childhood, adolescence, and his early adulthood. Based on a 150-word poem by Ron Koertge and directed by the Baltimore-based directors Max Porter and Ru Kuwahata, the film proves a profound meditation on death, grief, and fatherhood, and it does so poignantly and pithily across its mere 5-minute runtime.

Sam (right) and his father (left) bond over packing luggage in one of the flashback sequences in Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

“We instantly loved the project because of its poesy and dark humour ending. It is a really humane tale and we related to it. We also loved the first images we saw, and loved that it was to be a full stop motion film.”

Kuwahata and Porter initially developed Negative Space on their own before then submitting the film as a project proposal to CICLIC Animation Center, a production residency located in Vendôme, France. Shortly after, Ikki Films and co-producer Manuel Cam Studio joined alongside them to actualize the film over the course of nine months and ultimately across four different locations in France, to which the artists involved in the film moved during production.

Sam packs his suitcase in modern day in Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

Since its release in 2017, Negative Space has gone on to screen at more than 160 festivals all over the world and has won some 75 honors and awards, such as the Grand Prix and Grand Prix for Short Film at the International Festival of Documentary and Short Film of Bilbao ZINEBI, Spain (’17), Anima Mundi, Brazil (’17), Association française du cinéma d’animation (‘17), Krok Animation Festival, Ukraine (’17), Taichung Int. Animation Festival, Taiwan (’17), Thessaloniki Animation Festival, Greece (’17), ReAnimania – International Animation Film & Comics Art Festival of Yerevan, Armenia (‘17), Monstra, Portugal (‘18), Multivision Festival, Russia (’17), Xiamen International Animation Festival, China (‘17), Indie Júnior Allianz Festival, Portugal (‘18), Tokyo Anime Award Festival, Japan (‘18), Sebastopol Documentary Film Festival, US (‘18), International Film Festival of Uruguay, Uruguay (’18), and the Stopmotion Our Fest, Argentina (‘18).

Sam walks to his car in Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

In our interview, Edwina Liard tells Stop Motion Geek about her involvement on Negative Space, from the moment when she and Nidia Santiago first met Ru Kuwahata to the completion of the film and its distribution. She also tells us about how she first became involved in the filmmaking industry, where her desire to produce diverse films began, and how she has seen Ikki Films take root and flourish since her arrival at the company in November of 2011. She also gives us an in-depth look at the filmmaking atmosphere in France and explains how writers – whether located in France or other parts of the world – can apply for funding for short films and can pitch to film producers in France. You can read our interview below in full.

A.H. Uriah: Hello, Edwina! Thank you so much for doing this interview! To start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, how you first became interested in film, and how your life has transpired to get you to where you are now – a producer of many of diverse films made by filmmakers from all over the world, including Negative Space, which was nominated for an Oscar?

Edwina Liard: Hello, thank you for the interview, it’s a great chance to be able to talk about our work!

Sam's father picks up Sam in one of the surreal flashback sequences in Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

Working in the film industry wasn’t a childhood dream, it came about as I was studying cultural management, after graduating from a business school in France. A friend of mine was an intern in a production company and told me how diverse and interesting it was, and I thought “ok, let’s try that!” That’s how I got caught! I began as a production assistant in France for two years, then worked for two other years in a medium length film festival in Spain before coming back to France in November 2011 and beginning to work with Nidia Santiago, my business partner, who had created the company, Ikki Films, a few months before. I never looked back. Since I was a child I was always more into books than screens, but books have always created images in my mind, I think that’s why it felt so natural to work in an industry helping people’s stories become images. And I particularly love animation because I love being taken in a new visual world where everything is created from scratch, it amazes me. As for the international focus I have, I think it’s simply because I’ve been living abroad several times since I was a child, so I know from experience how rich coming from different backgrounds and countries can be.

Sam is threatened by a wave of clothes in one of the surreal flashback sequences in Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

A.H.: Can you tell us a little bit about Ikki Films, which you co-founded with your business partner Nidia Santiago? How did your production company come about and how has it blossomed over the past few years since its founding in 2011?

EL: So, as I was saying, Nidia created Ikki Films in June 2011. She asked me to come and join her and I did in November of the same year. From the beginning we decided we would work together on all aspects of the production, from writing to distribution. We choose every project together, and we follow them together during development, production, post-production and distribution. Depending on the project one can take the hand more than the other, but we always know what is happening and take decisions together. This means that communications are very important all the more since Nidia moved to Orbigny in 2015, where we have now our headquarters, and a small animation and image post-production studio since 2016, which we use for our projects as well as for other’s projects. We have also created a post of ‘production assistant’ in 2017. Having Annaëlle working with us has allowed us to be able to have more time to find new projects and develop more at the same time. We have now produced 7 shorts and are developing others, as well as feature projects, in animation and live action, working with directors from France but also Russia, Colombia, Mexico, Germany, etc.

Sam lies in a suitcase in one of the surreal flashback sequences in Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

A.H.: Can you explain to us what the filmmaking atmosphere is like in France and what the draw is for production companies and filmmakers? What does one who is not from France have to do to make a film in France and apply for funding?

EL: In France we have the chance to have quite a lot of places we can go to to ask for public funding: the CNC at a state level, and then the regions, and some other public agencies. There are also a few TV channels that do pre-buy short films. This means filmmaking in France can be a professional thing even for short films. There is an industry, there is work. The best is that funding doesn’t go to commercial films, you can totally finance a dark experimental animation short films here. The drawback is there is a lot of competition and the financing process can be quite long. And for animation in particular, people in commissions often come from live action and it is sometimes hard to make them understand what animations is so we need to present really solid submissions.

One of the surreal flashback sequences in Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

To apply in France as a writer, you can go directly to the CNC if you’re European, European meaning in this case Europe but also Turkey, Israel, etc. The dossier has to be in French but you don’t need a producer to apply. To find money for development and production you need a French producer. And to find a French producer interested in international projects, the best places are festivals! In France Clermont-Ferrand, Annecy and Cannes mainly, because these three have professional markets attached with a lot of producers going, and pitching sessions organized. The same is true with Berlin, Rotterdam, 3D Wire, etc. There is also the possibility of going through an association like La Maison des Scénaristes, which is French but has links in the US for example, and which aim is to help writers meet with producers, directors, actors, etc. It organizes pitching sessions in Clermont-Ferrand and Cannes, but have also created an online platform. Pitches are a very good opportunity because your project is not lost in an over-crammed mailbox.

The only exception to this funding rule is CICLIC, in the Centre region, where you can send your project for production fund without having a producer for the first step, but if your project is selected to go to the second phase you have to have one, so even if CICLIC can recommend you some, it’s always good to have an idea of some producers you would like to work with beforehand.

Sam drives through a tunnel while ruminating about his past in Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

A.H.: You described your job to me as “...a lot of small things, it’s about creating a good work environment to make a film we will all love. My business partner and I always chose projects that thrill us, we need this energy to battle all the way through, as it is a long financing and making process, we need to be in love with the images and the story.” Can you describe to us what a “good work environment” looks like in the filmmaking industry, especially between a producer and a director? How do you and your business partner help to foster a good working environment?

EL: The key to a good work environment is mutual trust, communications, good people and passion!

We try to be as transparent as possible with our authors, regarding the financing steps we will take, and also the budget of the film. We need them to understand where the money goes, because we believe transparency fosters trust. We also listen to their needs, in order to find the best conditions of work for everyone, according to the financing situation. Communications is key.

A surreal transition from one of the driving sequences into one of the flashback sequences in Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

There are of course always new questions, and sometimes misunderstandings, but we always try to go pass these moments by talking it over. And if ever the trust is broken, we also know to let go a project, even if we liked it very much, because it’s too long a process to force someone, or oneself, to work together when trust is lost. It’s not worth it.

Then, we always choose the technicians carefully, in agreement with the directors. It is important that they are good and a 100% involved. For that we can rely on our directors’ network and ours.

A.H.: Can you tell us a little about your involvement with Negative Space? How did you come to meet Ru and Max (the directors)? At that point, what did they have in the way of conceptual material and a script concerning the film that made you want to help this story get told?
EL: We met Ru in Clermont-Ferrand International Short Film Festival. Ru had applied to a writer’s pitching session organized by La Maison des Scénaristes. We saw her videopitch before the festival and wanted to meet with her. She already knew about us because Nidia had coproduced “Oh Willy…” by Emma de Swaef and Marc James Roels. So we were all excited to meet! Ru and Max already had a script and part of the storyboard. They also had begun to investigate the puppets. We instantly loved the project because of its poesy and dark humour ending. It is a really humane tale and we related to it. We also loved the first images we saw, and loved that it was to be a full stop motion film.

A young Sam swims through a surreal underwater landscape of clothes in Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

A.H.: Ru mentioned to me that you and your business partner, Nidia Santiago, were “in charge of day-to-day producing elements (gathering talents, finding money, taking care of the budget, contracts, etc).” Specifically in regards to “gather talents,” how did you and your business partner go about the search on Negative Space?
EL: Animation is a small world. We knew Sylvain Derosne, the lead animator, because we had seen various films he made and were awed by his skills. The first chief decorator, Marion Lacourt is a director whose short film we are producing right now, and she recommended the second, Victoria Tanto, to us. We had already worked with DOP Nadine Buss and knew her to be really talented. We also knew our coproducer, Jean-Louis Padis from Manuel Cam, who is very experienced and talented in producing stop motion, and who works with Sylvain too!

A.H.: You mentioned to me that “During the development phase our job is to help with the writing.” For Negative Space, how long did the development phase last and what kinds of suggestions did you give Ru and Max? Can you remember any specific notes that you gave them for Negative Space?

EL: The development phase begun without us, Max and Ru were already well advanced, it lasted a year I think. We changed very few things in the script because they had a very clear idea of where they wanted to go!

Sam addresses the audience, breaking the fourth wall in the opening scene of Negative Space. Source: Vimeo.

A.H.: You mentioned to me that part of your job involves distributing the films Ikki Films produces. For Negative Space, what did this process look like for you and your business partner and how do you go about distribution, especially for a short film?

EL: I meant we are involved in the distribution of our shorts, because we care and follow it, but for “Negative Space,” “Lupus” and “Gusła or the Spirits” we are working with Luce Grosjean, Miyu Distribution. We did distribute “Chulyen” but it is a very time consuming job and we decided to outsource it. We are present all along the way, we always begin the distribution phase a bit before the end of postproduction, with a meeting with our distributor and the directors so they can express their needs and we can design a distribution strategy all together. Luce then keeps us posted on every sale or festival there is.

Negative Space poster. Photo courtesy of Ru Kuwahata.

To learn more about Liard’s work and Ikki Films, you can visit Ikki Films’ website, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

You can now rent Negative Space in full online by going here. You can watch the trailer for the film by going here, and you can visit the webpage for the film by going here.

This article is the fourth in a series of interviews coordinated by Stop Motion Geek with the creative team behind Negative Space. You can read the first article in the series – an interview with Bram Meindersma, the composer and sound designer of the film – by going here. You can read the second article in the series – an interview with Sylvain Derosne, the lead animator on the film – by going here. You can read the third article in the series – an interview with Nadine Buss, the cinematographer of the film – by going here. You can read the fifth and last article in the series – an interview with Ru Kuwahata and Max Porter, the directors of the film – by going here.

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